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	<title>Comments on: Seven Untrue Things Most Americans Believe</title>
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	<description>Sanity In An Insane World</description>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.manicmeltdown.com/2010/07/03/untrue_american_beliefs/comment-page-1/#comment-4856</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Sep 2010 06:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.manicmeltdown.com/?p=353#comment-4856</guid>
		<description>This is a great post. I agree so much. Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great post. I agree so much. Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>http://www.manicmeltdown.com/2010/07/03/untrue_american_beliefs/comment-page-1/#comment-4851</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Sep 2010 11:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I must disagree with point #5.  At least, with the assumption underlying the point.

You wrote &quot;Private sector employees and employers are not, in and of themselves, by their very nature, more virtuous or productive than government employees.&quot;  This is a misnomer, nobody believes that a person working in a government job is suddenly a better, bright, more virtuous actor as soon as they get a private sector job.  Obviously not.

The contention is, really, that when a government employee decides to spend taxpayer funds, he has no way to get the data he needs to make the best decisions.  He has money, and a rough mandate of what needs to be done, but no way of knowing how much of each thing needs to be done.  This is the reason we don&#039;t want the government running grocery stores - if a single employee (or worse, a committee) was assigned the task of deciding which groceries each household should need, and provided these as &#039;food services&#039; paid for by your taxes, you would not have an easy way to let this guy know that you were, say, tired of potato, and would prefer radishes.  Sure, you could put in a requisition form, and wait three weeks, but it&#039;s not really the same as being able to not buy the things you don&#039;t want.

This is, very broadly explained, the Economic Calculation Problem.  It&#039;s not that government employees are evil or stupid, it&#039;s that they can never have the same level of access to planning information as they need to allocate resources as well as the free market does.

A grocer that relies on seeing how different vegetables sell at different prices is gaining a wealth of information - he can see what people want, and prefer, based on their buying habits.  As soon as the government steps in and starts interfering with the system, that information is lost.  For example, if a well meaning government employed grocer decides that he thinks tomatoes should be provided &quot;freely&quot; (meaning you pay taxes to pay for them later), then you, the consumer, will quite happily take the free tomatoes, but the money you would have preferred to spend on onions, if it weren&#039;t taxed away from you, is gone.  You can&#039;t communicate that you would have spent the money on onions easily, and the grocer doesn&#039;t get this information without an extra effort.

In this way, government employees are less efficient than private sector employees, just because they don&#039;t get as much feedback on how they&#039;re doing.  Bad grocers, those who provide rotten food, or poor selections, must either change their ways quickly or go out of business.  The government grocer doesn&#039;t - he sees that fewer people are satisfied with his service, but does not know why without significant effort to find out - which is expensive.  The price mechanism in a free society performs a necessary function - communicating desires and problems between producers and consumers.  Getting the government involved adds noise to that communication - the noise of the guesses the government must make about what the taxpayers would have spent their tax money on if they were actually free to choose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must disagree with point #5.  At least, with the assumption underlying the point.</p>
<p>You wrote &#8220;Private sector employees and employers are not, in and of themselves, by their very nature, more virtuous or productive than government employees.&#8221;  This is a misnomer, nobody believes that a person working in a government job is suddenly a better, bright, more virtuous actor as soon as they get a private sector job.  Obviously not.</p>
<p>The contention is, really, that when a government employee decides to spend taxpayer funds, he has no way to get the data he needs to make the best decisions.  He has money, and a rough mandate of what needs to be done, but no way of knowing how much of each thing needs to be done.  This is the reason we don&#8217;t want the government running grocery stores &#8211; if a single employee (or worse, a committee) was assigned the task of deciding which groceries each household should need, and provided these as &#8216;food services&#8217; paid for by your taxes, you would not have an easy way to let this guy know that you were, say, tired of potato, and would prefer radishes.  Sure, you could put in a requisition form, and wait three weeks, but it&#8217;s not really the same as being able to not buy the things you don&#8217;t want.</p>
<p>This is, very broadly explained, the Economic Calculation Problem.  It&#8217;s not that government employees are evil or stupid, it&#8217;s that they can never have the same level of access to planning information as they need to allocate resources as well as the free market does.</p>
<p>A grocer that relies on seeing how different vegetables sell at different prices is gaining a wealth of information &#8211; he can see what people want, and prefer, based on their buying habits.  As soon as the government steps in and starts interfering with the system, that information is lost.  For example, if a well meaning government employed grocer decides that he thinks tomatoes should be provided &#8220;freely&#8221; (meaning you pay taxes to pay for them later), then you, the consumer, will quite happily take the free tomatoes, but the money you would have preferred to spend on onions, if it weren&#8217;t taxed away from you, is gone.  You can&#8217;t communicate that you would have spent the money on onions easily, and the grocer doesn&#8217;t get this information without an extra effort.</p>
<p>In this way, government employees are less efficient than private sector employees, just because they don&#8217;t get as much feedback on how they&#8217;re doing.  Bad grocers, those who provide rotten food, or poor selections, must either change their ways quickly or go out of business.  The government grocer doesn&#8217;t &#8211; he sees that fewer people are satisfied with his service, but does not know why without significant effort to find out &#8211; which is expensive.  The price mechanism in a free society performs a necessary function &#8211; communicating desires and problems between producers and consumers.  Getting the government involved adds noise to that communication &#8211; the noise of the guesses the government must make about what the taxpayers would have spent their tax money on if they were actually free to choose.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem</a></p>
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		<title>By: Adam Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.manicmeltdown.com/2010/07/03/untrue_american_beliefs/comment-page-1/#comment-4848</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Sep 2010 06:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.manicmeltdown.com/?p=353#comment-4848</guid>
		<description>The problem here is that you implicitly suggest that believing in this country&#039;s mythos is wrong. You are making a value judgment on beliefs. The tone essentially comes off as a patronizing look at the views of hicks and rubes in America (so we can all stare knowingly at them on the subway). Second, you make several logical fallacies and hypocritically mock &quot;generalizations&quot; before going on to make numerous generalizations yourself. For example, saying &quot;our way of life&quot; is defined as energy consumption is just silly. You can&#039;t be that dense. I&#039;m &quot;regular folk&quot; and I define &quot;our way of life&quot; in terms of our Constitutional freedoms. I&#039;m sure you are writing to your audience, but what is the purpose? To persuade? To Inform? Or did you write to display your own confirmation bias? In what way does educating the American &quot;idiot&quot; about his faulty beliefs help move forward the discourse? &quot;Gee, after reading that, I guess I&#039;ll volunteer to pay more taxes this year...&quot; The variables you ignore include a whole body of science on the study of Nationalism and Patriotism (not inherently bad things). 
The way to make this country better is to embrace our &quot;We are better than you&quot; roots. Even if it&#039;s not true, believing in it, and then working to prove it, is a far more productive venture. The reason many of these &quot;false&quot; beliefs are so popular is because they speak to the core of the American psyche. We hate the government, and have since we broke from the mother country; we think we are the best on the block, and have since Manifest Destiny (and WWII); We have the most robust civil rights system, and eventually right our wrongs when we don&#039;t. You get the point, I&#039;m sure.

In the sports world, you would be surprised to hear a pep talk where the coach says, &quot;We&#039;re number 2 (or 3), now go out there and face reality.&quot; That&#039;s what you&#039;ve done here coach--demoralized the team even more. Way to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem here is that you implicitly suggest that believing in this country&#8217;s mythos is wrong. You are making a value judgment on beliefs. The tone essentially comes off as a patronizing look at the views of hicks and rubes in America (so we can all stare knowingly at them on the subway). Second, you make several logical fallacies and hypocritically mock &#8220;generalizations&#8221; before going on to make numerous generalizations yourself. For example, saying &#8220;our way of life&#8221; is defined as energy consumption is just silly. You can&#8217;t be that dense. I&#8217;m &#8220;regular folk&#8221; and I define &#8220;our way of life&#8221; in terms of our Constitutional freedoms. I&#8217;m sure you are writing to your audience, but what is the purpose? To persuade? To Inform? Or did you write to display your own confirmation bias? In what way does educating the American &#8220;idiot&#8221; about his faulty beliefs help move forward the discourse? &#8220;Gee, after reading that, I guess I&#8217;ll volunteer to pay more taxes this year&#8230;&#8221; The variables you ignore include a whole body of science on the study of Nationalism and Patriotism (not inherently bad things).<br />
The way to make this country better is to embrace our &#8220;We are better than you&#8221; roots. Even if it&#8217;s not true, believing in it, and then working to prove it, is a far more productive venture. The reason many of these &#8220;false&#8221; beliefs are so popular is because they speak to the core of the American psyche. We hate the government, and have since we broke from the mother country; we think we are the best on the block, and have since Manifest Destiny (and WWII); We have the most robust civil rights system, and eventually right our wrongs when we don&#8217;t. You get the point, I&#8217;m sure.</p>
<p>In the sports world, you would be surprised to hear a pep talk where the coach says, &#8220;We&#8217;re number 2 (or 3), now go out there and face reality.&#8221; That&#8217;s what you&#8217;ve done here coach&#8211;demoralized the team even more. Way to go.</p>
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		<title>By: Amir Ecan</title>
		<link>http://www.manicmeltdown.com/2010/07/03/untrue_american_beliefs/comment-page-1/#comment-4578</link>
		<dc:creator>Amir Ecan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 01:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.manicmeltdown.com/?p=353#comment-4578</guid>
		<description>Yet for all of America&#039;s failings, it&#039;s not that bad of a place and is, for the most part, a force of good in the world.  It can be better and so long as America remembers it can improve itself, it will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yet for all of America&#8217;s failings, it&#8217;s not that bad of a place and is, for the most part, a force of good in the world.  It can be better and so long as America remembers it can improve itself, it will.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms. Sanity</title>
		<link>http://www.manicmeltdown.com/2010/07/03/untrue_american_beliefs/comment-page-1/#comment-4479</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms. Sanity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 21:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.manicmeltdown.com/?p=353#comment-4479</guid>
		<description>I Agree, Kim and Sandra.  Not surprisingly I lost a couple of followers as a result of this posting. Ah, well. Some conservatives spread it around claiming  that I&#039;m an idiot and that I hate America. How and when did social commentary become conflated with &quot;hating America??&quot; I&#039;m not bothered really that people decided that&#039;s what this post was all about, I guess I&#039;m both a little amused by it and a little saddened. Too bad. It is sad to me that as a country especially the conservative &quot;chunk&quot; of us - we really do seem to be in junior high school.

Now, because I&#039;m a big fan of oversimplification and for taking on problems I can&#039;t possibly solve, (smile) I&#039;m going to put my thinking cap on and see if I can come up with a post about how we can, as a country, become less polarized and more inclined to work together. 

Thanks for your thoughtful comments and for stopping by. More to come!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I Agree, Kim and Sandra.  Not surprisingly I lost a couple of followers as a result of this posting. Ah, well. Some conservatives spread it around claiming  that I&#8217;m an idiot and that I hate America. How and when did social commentary become conflated with &#8220;hating America??&#8221; I&#8217;m not bothered really that people decided that&#8217;s what this post was all about, I guess I&#8217;m both a little amused by it and a little saddened. Too bad. It is sad to me that as a country especially the conservative &#8220;chunk&#8221; of us &#8211; we really do seem to be in junior high school.</p>
<p>Now, because I&#8217;m a big fan of oversimplification and for taking on problems I can&#8217;t possibly solve, (smile) I&#8217;m going to put my thinking cap on and see if I can come up with a post about how we can, as a country, become less polarized and more inclined to work together. </p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughtful comments and for stopping by. More to come!</p>
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		<title>By: Sandra</title>
		<link>http://www.manicmeltdown.com/2010/07/03/untrue_american_beliefs/comment-page-1/#comment-4474</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 23:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.manicmeltdown.com/?p=353#comment-4474</guid>
		<description>Ah yes. There are more but you nailed a good 7 of them. One I would add is that tax cuts create jobs. Where are they?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah yes. There are more but you nailed a good 7 of them. One I would add is that tax cuts create jobs. Where are they?</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Andersen</title>
		<link>http://www.manicmeltdown.com/2010/07/03/untrue_american_beliefs/comment-page-1/#comment-4473</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Andersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 23:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.manicmeltdown.com/?p=353#comment-4473</guid>
		<description>Interesting that all 7 points are about where we stand in comparison to others. Other humans, other countries, other political parties. It reminds me of what it&#039;s like to be in junior high again. Insecure, uncertain, inferior, immature .... and making up for it with meanness. I think it&#039;s an accurate list. Too bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that all 7 points are about where we stand in comparison to others. Other humans, other countries, other political parties. It reminds me of what it&#8217;s like to be in junior high again. Insecure, uncertain, inferior, immature &#8230;. and making up for it with meanness. I think it&#8217;s an accurate list. Too bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms. Sanity</title>
		<link>http://www.manicmeltdown.com/2010/07/03/untrue_american_beliefs/comment-page-1/#comment-4471</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms. Sanity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.manicmeltdown.com/?p=353#comment-4471</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all of your comments and for the reposting, too, Mr. Hedtke. I appreciate all of your thoughts and I certainly agree with #8 that lvleph posted above. I crossposted this to daily kos and people also made a lot of suggestions there which could have been added to the list; notably a 9.)That all wars the US gets involved in are &quot;just wars&quot; and are good things to do that we have the right to do... (which of course is an insane point of view...) and 10.) That Gay people want &quot;special&quot; rights (no, they just want to be treated like everyone else...) 

Probably none of you would be surprised that some conservative folks picked up on this posting and loudly claimed that I&#039;m a.) an idiot and b.) that I hate this country. I could perhaps see why they&#039;d put forth the former but the latter is, well, insane. 

I wasn&#039;t even really criticizing the country, I was criticizing some untrue beliefs! Ah well, it&#039;s hardly surprising. 

Anyway; feel free to pass the post along wherever and to whomever you think it might do some good....

Again, thanks again to you all for your comments!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all of your comments and for the reposting, too, Mr. Hedtke. I appreciate all of your thoughts and I certainly agree with #8 that lvleph posted above. I crossposted this to daily kos and people also made a lot of suggestions there which could have been added to the list; notably a 9.)That all wars the US gets involved in are &#8220;just wars&#8221; and are good things to do that we have the right to do&#8230; (which of course is an insane point of view&#8230;) and 10.) That Gay people want &#8220;special&#8221; rights (no, they just want to be treated like everyone else&#8230;) </p>
<p>Probably none of you would be surprised that some conservative folks picked up on this posting and loudly claimed that I&#8217;m a.) an idiot and b.) that I hate this country. I could perhaps see why they&#8217;d put forth the former but the latter is, well, insane. </p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t even really criticizing the country, I was criticizing some untrue beliefs! Ah well, it&#8217;s hardly surprising. </p>
<p>Anyway; feel free to pass the post along wherever and to whomever you think it might do some good&#8230;.</p>
<p>Again, thanks again to you all for your comments!</p>
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		<title>By: lvleph</title>
		<link>http://www.manicmeltdown.com/2010/07/03/untrue_american_beliefs/comment-page-1/#comment-4469</link>
		<dc:creator>lvleph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 02:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>8. The US is the most democratic nation. Not only did the supreme court say that corporations have the right to donate as much money as any individual to politicians, but Switzerland is certainly more democratic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>8. The US is the most democratic nation. Not only did the supreme court say that corporations have the right to donate as much money as any individual to politicians, but Switzerland is certainly more democratic.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms. Moon</title>
		<link>http://www.manicmeltdown.com/2010/07/03/untrue_american_beliefs/comment-page-1/#comment-4465</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms. Moon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 23:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You are completely correct and yet, these myths (lies) keep being told over and over again until every unthinking person in the USA believes them despite the evidence against them.
Amen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are completely correct and yet, these myths (lies) keep being told over and over again until every unthinking person in the USA believes them despite the evidence against them.<br />
Amen.</p>
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